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Posted By Topic » Leviathan 2011 : Death at the Kharga Oasis
Nebseni Hammerhand
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Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Tuesday, Feb 08, 2011 at 4:34 AM
The Kharga oasis, several days to the west of the life giving Nile, famed for it's vinyards, is a town that lives on trade and commerce.

The Kharga oasis is dying, strangled by siege, smothered by a pall of darkness from the Ultimate Dark, the Eater of the Dead.

While defenders rally to save Kharga, followers of the Eater, Titans, Wendigo and utterly infamous harbigers and demigods gather for the kill, ready to reap blood and souls for their vile masters or simply for the promise of loot and the blood fueled pleasure of sacking the town.

A Wargods of Aegyptus tournament over 2 days.

Contact Barry by email: wargods@mail.com

Warband lists must be submitted to the organiser prior to the event either via PM on the crocodile forum http://www.crocodilegames.com/ or email : (wargods@mail.com).

Tournament details: • The tournament will be run over 2 days : (16th and 17th April) at the Leviathan wargames convention at Quakers Hill High School, Sydney.

• Warbands can be up to, but not exceeding 1500pts (following all the restrictions as per the Rulebook).

• Warbands may be designed using rules as published up to one week before the convention.

• Asar Harbingers (or equivalents) excepting Harbingers of Isis and Thoth may start at Ka 2 (or equivalent). All other harbingers can only start at Ka 1 (No more flaming chicken of doom from the start)

• Equipment should be close to What You See Is What You Get (Armour may be one grade higher than appears on the mini, any shield may be called Large by paying the points, all weapons should be correctly represented except Javelins & Throwing-clubs).

• Miniatures do not have to be fully painted but at least assembled, undercoated and securely based (movement trays are advised).

• Warband lists must be submitted to the organiser prior to the event. Random elements (such as Spells, Artifex items, Abomination mutations & Crypt Lord powers) will be generated by the organiser on submission of the list and be the same across the tournament.

• Heavy armour may not be taken in combination with a shield.

• Ka levels may be acquired throughout the tournament via victory in Provocation (as per the Rulebook). Acquired Ka powers will be determined randomly by the organiser. Where the player does not bring the miniature(s) for particular powers (ie Guardian Shadows, Favoured of Bast, Aspect of Horus - Defender/Avenger, Call Phantom Warriors, Create Beasts, The Stone Colossus, Aspect of Set - Hunter) they will get the lowest numbered power they do not already have.

• Additional information will be posted to the Crocodile Games forums at http://www.crocodilegames.com/

• Prizes will be awarded for: o Champion of Ra : awarded to the player with the highest combination of final Ka rating, "battle" score, "sportsmanship" score & "aesthetic" score. o Champion of Horus : awarded to the player with the highest "battle" score. o Champion of Bast : this will cover overall aesthetics from the perspective of painting, conversions and theme. To be eligible for this prize, 90% of the mini's must be painted with more than 3 colours (black, white & grey primer do not count) and at least 75% of the mini's must be Crocodile Games miniatures. o A player will be eligible to win one prize only.

If practical, players will be assigned to one of two teams : The Defenders of Kharga and the Despoilers of Kharga.

Notes and options : The intent for the Ka restrictions is to give an incentive to run Asar harbingers of, say, Horus or Sobek, and to reduce the effectiveness of spellcasting harbingers so that, at least at the start, they cannot cast firey aspect on themselves one turn and then earth's farewell to get into provocation.

It is sometimes difficult to reach a conclusion with games at 1500 points in 2.5 hours. I can see two options : reducing the points value to 1200 points or having fewer, longer games. Does anyone have any comments?

I need ideas on 'house rules' for reducing the effect of the flaming chicken of doom (Firey Aspect followed by Earths Farewell by a spellcasting harbinger = easy provocation victory): Prohibition ? Allowing an armour save?

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Saturday, Feb 12, 2011 at 10:44 PM
For reference, I have to get the basic blurb in to the organisers by the 15th (i.e. this coming tuesday)

If you have any suggestions or comments, please pipe up.

Also, whether you can attend would be nice to know. I have a rather successful Sebeki army I can loan out if (to go with Anubi, Basti, ToTanem etc ones)

Fenrihr
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/05/2005
Member: 92
Total Posts: 144
Posted: Monday, Feb 14, 2011 at 4:12 AM Edited on 2011-02-14 04:13:17.0
Nebseni Hammerhand said:
I need ideas on 'house rules' for reducing the effect of the flaming chicken of doom (Firey Aspect followed by Earths Farewell by a spellcasting harbinger = easy provocation victory): Prohibition ? Allowing an armour save?
I think the easiest, and probably fairest all around, answer it to disallow anyone from entering into combat using the Earths Farewell spell (drive-bys still being okay though).

That way the Thoth/Isis harbinger can still use the spell to line him/herself up for provocation the next round - assuming s/he wins the edge, without it being the obvious, and all too easy, turn 2 provocation victory... as meanwhile their opponent still has opportunities to avoid tthe fait accompli.

As for being able to attend Leviathan... watch this space...

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Morituri Nolumus Mori.. - ..we who are about to die don't want to

Akori
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 03/21/2007
Member: 577
Total Posts: 715
Posted: Monday, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:34 PM
My two cents coming up!

Yeah, Flaming Chick of Doom is tough, but I've found not game changing. Thing is you know what you're facing from the get go. Anyone knows if you're facing an Isis, or Thoth, Ka 2 Harbinger the combo is coming. If you're waiting until Fiery Aspect has been cast to get at least 24" away, you are not thinking ahead. I've fought against repeated Thoth Harbingers (only 1 Isis), but I learned my lesson after the 2nd battle, KEEP THE HARBINGER AT LEAST 2 FEET AWAY AT ALL TIMES!

When I face those Harbingers I keep mine out of range or protected by another character. Remember Fiery Aspect only lasts until the end of the next melee the model enters into. I don't mind sacrificing a character that usually puts at least one wound on the enemy Harbinger. Nice considering he/she is now also down at least 2 Ka points!

Also, let's not forget the Thoth Harbinger is very subpar... & Isis does not come into her own until about Ka 4 or so. So, they have a really deadly combo, but that's really their own big advantage.

The combo also adds a nice balancing element to increasing your Harbinger's stats. It forces people to opt for increasing their Arc., instead of their Att, Def, or Disc. I'll be honest if there isn't at least one Isis or Thoth in the campaign I'm playing in, Arc doesn't get bumped until I reach Ka 5 or 6... let me rephrase that, "if I reach Ka 5 or 6."

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Slayer of the Minotaur Lord of Knossos (S.D. '10), Savior of Calydon (S.D. '11)

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Monday, Feb 14, 2011 at 2:20 PM
I see your point, but when they're able to cast from a chariot (see FAQ on harbinger powers Isis and Thoth ) Your text to link... , staying more than 24" away is very very difficult.

As far as protecting with another character, I assuming you mean keeping another character between the harbingers as a human (or whatever) shield, it's easy enough to land beside the other harbinger touching base to base. Even if you miss out on your first round of attacks, they've still got to get through your armour and firey aspect ignores armour.

Assuming your harbinger is appropriately equipped (decent armour and 2nd hand weapon) you can still crispy critter them.

Akori
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 03/21/2007
Member: 577
Total Posts: 715
Posted: Monday, Feb 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM
Yes, & no. Don't forget, even though the harbinger can cast a spell from the back of a chariot, that is all they & the chariot can do for the turn. As stated on p. 64, "The only time a Chariot is issued 2 command counters is when the passenger decides to get off the Chariot. In this situation, the player issues an Attach/Detach command Counter for the passenger in addition to the Command Counter for the Chariot."

Now if your opponent wants to Cast Fiery aspect, then drive his chariot 10" (remember to build up that speed), then 20", then cast Earth's Farewell, go ahead! By that point I should have already destroyed the Chariot w/Missile Fire, killed the driver & maybe even wounded the Harbinger.

The rule stated at the beginning is often misplayed by players. Since the FAQ states they may cast the spell even when in a Chariot, people assume that means they can move 20" & Cast Earth's Farewell in the same turn... no. One has to revert back to Word of Power, where it clearly states the harbinger must be issued a Cast Spell Command Counter. If Chariots are only allowed to be issued 1 CC, unless they are issued an Attach/Detach as well, then the Chariot is going no where the turn a harbinger casts Word of Power.

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Slayer of the Minotaur Lord of Knossos (S.D. '10), Savior of Calydon (S.D. '11)

Fenrihr
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/05/2005
Member: 92
Total Posts: 144
Posted: Tuesday, Feb 15, 2011 at 2:57 AM Edited on 2011-02-17 01:42:30.0
Respectfully, I have to disagree with you on the issue of it being game changing. Every game I’ve ever played where my opponent has lost his harbinger early on in the piece has been a whitewash... and equally, every game where I have lost my own harbinger early on has likewise been a disaster.

Yes, there are plenty of combos that are... let’s just say not polite. This one is defintiely one of them... and no matter how much you might say “just keep your harbinger 24” away”, the board is only so big, so unless you are skulking your harbinger in the back corner, you are at best only delaying the inevitable by a single turn.

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Morituri Nolumus Mori.. - ..we who are about to die don't want to

Akenatum
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 08/23/2010
Member: 1207
Total Posts: 174
Posted: Sunday, Feb 27, 2011 at 7:03 AM Edited on 2011-02-27 07:03:46.0
So anyone know what i should look at to use for proxying frost maidens?

For this?

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Friday, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:45 AM
Well, it's about a month away... expressions of interest would be nice... :)

Fenrihr
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/05/2005
Member: 92
Total Posts: 144
Posted: Friday, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:05 AM
Sorry, but I'm going to be a no-show

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Morituri Nolumus Mori.. - ..we who are about to die don't want to

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Friday, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:50 PM
Sorry you can't make it. (sigh)

Oceanborn
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/03/2005
Member: 67
Total Posts: 622
Posted: Sunday, Mar 13, 2011 at 12:11 AM
I'm expecting to be able to make it

CBP3
High Tethru Investigator
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Member Since: 12/02/2005
Member: 55
Total Posts: 3018
Posted: Monday, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:46 AM
I don't see why the weakest Harbingers are getting their killer combo nerfed while you guys aren't limiting the Sebeki monsters with spit and boosted DM or Aspects of Horus or Set or any of the other Harbs' tough combinations of powers. They're balanced as it is. If you're that scared of a sand-chicken and a GIRL shoot at them with lots of archers or send a chariot unit at them or something-- don't nerf them just because you'e had a couple bad games...

My 2 gold pieces....

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http://minismithsforge.blogspot.com/ http://shefdumabuki.blogspot.com/

Akori
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 03/21/2007
Member: 577
Total Posts: 715
Posted: Monday, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:55 AM
Though I think Fiery Aspect is fine the way it is, if you want to make a House Rule, just make it so it only work if the caster is hit, not every swing made by the opponent.

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Slayer of the Minotaur Lord of Knossos (S.D. '10), Savior of Calydon (S.D. '11)

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Tuesday, Mar 15, 2011 at 2:46 AM
The combos you mention Clark, require rolling the right aspect power or powers. It's a bit of a crap-shoot.

The Firey Aspect / Earth's Farewell combo is 'baseline'. If you're within 2 feet of a Ka 2 harbinger with spellcasting abilities after the first turn, your harbinger is dead. No tactical subtlety or cleverness is required.

The only counter-tactics are to run away and hope the game finishes before you get cornered (less than heroic) or hope that you have one of the few powers that either put out fires or let you leap out of provocation.

Using Nick's suggested mod (not being able to land in HTH via Earth's farewell) means the defender at least has a chance to maneuver out of the way and/or engage with another model first. This seems a minimal modification.

Actually, I expected more talk about limiting non-Asar harbingers to Ka 1... Point of clarification I just thought of : EoD harbingers and Ice Witches can be Ka 2.

Anyway, Leviathan is a very small comp (typically 4-6 players) which makes it a good way of testing concepts.

Fenrihr
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/05/2005
Member: 92
Total Posts: 144
Posted: Thursday, Mar 17, 2011 at 4:46 AM Edited on 2011-03-17 04:47:24.0
Akori, I agree that feiry aspect, in and of itself, is not an OTT spell and is largely fine the way it is... as is Earth's Farewell. It's the combo effect of feiry aspect and earth's farewell. when placed on a harbinger, that's a bit OTT (IMHO)... the whole is defintiely greater than the sum of it's parts.

CBP3 I do take your point about other powers being quite nasty... and you are right. There are plenty of less than polite powers - if you're lucky enough to roll them. But as Nebseni says; its the ability to cast that particular combo of spells as a default power...

Frankly, I defy you to show me another harbinger (or demigod or ice witch) that can boast the ability to take out an opponet's harbinger in provocation, in a single round, with a Ka1 ability.... and with 2pts of Ka can hunt you down in a single move regardless of LOS, intervening models and even charge arc - with a threat range that puts a fast advancing (or charging) chariot to shame, all by the end of turn 2.

Like said; each spell in isolation is fine... which is why I'd be against banning them, or nerfing them too much... it's adding them together that causes the concern.

(oh, and I'd hardly call the Harbinger of Isis a weakling - she's asar, which makes her a better melee fighter than basti, tethru and khemru... that places her 5th out of 9 - about half way?).

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Morituri Nolumus Mori.. - ..we who are about to die don't want to

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