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Zebb
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 8:18 AM Edited on 2013-06-06 08:19:11.0
I have a question, if I add US$ 15 (or the cost of him) to my pledge, would I be able to choose from the online store (as I am not totally convinced of the free Titan Hunter) and wouldn't mind getting my hand on the old Titan Hunter as well.

Also a quote from the Warseer thread:

They don't even have a pledge level that lets you pick up any of the existing starter boxes with a PDF of the rulebook thrown in which would seem like a no-brainer to me if you want to reel in people who are interested in taking the plunge.

Not sure you guys might want to reply to it, but anything to generate more pledges can be worth considering!

Osiris
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 9:57 AM
Zebb said:
I have a question, if I add US$ 15 (or the cost of him) to my pledge, would I be able to choose from the online store (as I am not totally convinced of the free Titan Hunter) and wouldn't mind getting my hand on the old Titan Hunter as well.

Also a quote from the Warseer thread:

They don't even have a pledge level that lets you pick up any of the existing starter boxes with a PDF of the rulebook thrown in which would seem like a no-brainer to me if you want to reel in people who are interested in taking the plunge.

Not sure you guys might want to reply to it, but anything to generate more pledges can be worth considering!

I'm not sure I understand the WarSeer question, we're including a PDF with every reward above Watcher.

About the Titan Hunter, we'll likely add him to the Add-Ons this weekend.

Alcibia
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 2:13 PM
As always, I feel the need to belabor the whole amazon thing. I have noticed the mounted versions (as you have mentioned here and on TMP, to name a couple spots) are generating some pretty big buzz. Now, on the other hand, I have seen some comments about Athenians but nothing about anyone getting revved up over the Corinthians - at least not yet. Considering the traction the girls are getting, is it too late, or too problematic to think about amazon Cavalry INSTEAD of the Corinthians for now? Push the Corinthians back a bit in the program and generate some quick additional pledges with the Amazon Horse Archers - just sayin.

Signed, the ever pesky Barry

Tjaroy
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 3:17 PM
Well I know one guys who wants the Corinthians to come out, that is me.

SoCal Tony

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Alcibia
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 3:41 PM
Tony, OK, that is cool, but why? What do yuo think we will see from Corinth that is not available in the Spartan or Mycenaean mix? is it the style that appeals? Just curious, thanks.

Anstpuppet
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 4:53 PM
I almost think throwing the Amazon Cav in as the a stretch goal after the Athenians might push this kickstarter into overdrive. Then we could not only see the Amazon Cav, which I am certainly for, but there would also be core forces for each major faction available during the KS campaign and hopefully for regular sales early next year. That would put Olympus on a relatively even par with Aegyptus and allow Croc to slowly expand those two games' ranges while deciding if more Hyperborea, Midgard/Valhalla/Viking, or Atlantis would be the next big push. Considering how well this is going we might all get to see a more full Wargods world in the next few years if this KS campaign goes well from beginning to end. These are all just my thoughts, but I think it is all possible. And

redben
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:31 PM Edited on 2013-06-06 17:31:37.0
Given that I'm repsonsible for that warseer post that's been quoted I suppose I best explain myself :)

My main interest in this KS was that it would be finally be the shove I needed to go from admiring Wargods from afar to actually playing and I'm sure I'm not the only one that applies to. Unfortunately, once the campaign started I found that I had to at least pledge at Skirmish level and spend $160+ shipping to get a playable force and I could only choose from WoO and not from WoAe, any less than that and I could only get the demi-gods. From pricing up what seemed to me to be the equivalent set of miniatures + book from the WoAe section of the online store it looked like I'd be paying RRP and standard shipping whilst being severely limited in what I could choose from.

It's certainly true that the Titan Hunter and Oracle could be added for free if/when those amounts are hit which would make Skirmish better value than simply ordering from the online store but I'm still very restriced and have to buy an additional unit and hero when I'd be happy with a starter (or two) and I could live without a hardcopy of the rules. All of which led me to conclude that a pledge that offered any one starter with a PDF of the relevant rulebook (WoAE or WoO depending on what starter was chosen) would offer a cost effective incentive to pledge and start playing the game. The impression I got on launch day was of a KS designed to make and sell demi-gods, not of one designed to get me to start playing the game.

It was subsequently pointed out to me that it's possible to pledge for one demi-god and add a starter as a $75 add-on which would also include a PDF of the rulebook. This still has the issue of restricting any potential pledger to WoO but would be exactly the type of pledge level that I feel is missing from the KS. One that allows a potential player to get started playing. There's every chance that anyone who went in on a level like this at the start of the campaign would find themselves adding a few add-ons as it went on and by the end concluding they'd be better of just moving up to Skirmish which may have become excellent value due unlocked free stretch goals. This is something I found myself doing with the recent Deadzone KS from Mantic.

This is all just my 2c and represents my point of view. Feel free to ignore it :). On the Corinthians, I was pretty surprised to see them as a future faction in the game, especially as one to be funded before the Athenians. And I say all this as a postgrad student researching Ancient Greece lol.

hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:37 PM Edited on 2013-06-06 17:39:42.0
Osiris said:
Zebb said:
I have a question, if I add US$ 15 (or the cost of him) to my pledge, would I be able to choose from the online store (as I am not totally convinced of the free Titan Hunter) and wouldn't mind getting my hand on the old Titan Hunter as well.

Also a quote from the Warseer thread:

They don't even have a pledge level that lets you pick up any of the existing starter boxes with a PDF of the rulebook thrown in which would seem like a no-brainer to me if you want to reel in people who are interested in taking the plunge.

Not sure you guys might want to reply to it, but anything to generate more pledges can be worth considering!

I'm not sure I understand the WarSeer question, we're including a PDF with every reward above Watcher.

About the Titan Hunter, we'll likely add him to the Add-Ons this weekend.

The original poster wanted a warband and a PDF copy of the book but NOT the book itself.

However, I can't recall a kick starter where this was even an option!?

I can sorta see the point of the request. My girlfriend refuses to buy anything but digital books these days and would probably prefer I stopped buying blu ray for just a digital copy as it takes up less room on the shelf :p

If you we're to consider this as an option just sell the book without the postage cost for the PDF. I guess it would save on printing... Myself I want a book :)

And if the PDF is searchable ill be a very happy camper - just like I will be when we pass 45k in a few hours and I get that awesome Titan hunter.

Ps can someone else suggest some tags over on the kicktraq site of this kick starter mine have not been approved yet s I guess you probably need a few people to suggest same!

Edit: beaten by thiiiissss much

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redben
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:41 PM Edited on 2013-06-06 17:43:49.0
I got a starter plus PDF of the rulebook from both the Brushfire and Relics crowdfunding campaigns. In each case it was thrown in for free for pledging for the starter and I received free minis as stretch goals.

hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Just to chime in again Redben this is a WoO kick starter not a WoAE kick starter! I feel limiting it Olympus stuff is completely justified (as it means I can't be tempted to buy from that range too!) from that point of view. However, if a lot of people want old stuff and not new and shiny maybe they will allow any faction at some point. Who knows!

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hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:46 PM
redben said:
I got a starter plus PDF of the rulebook from both the Brushfire and Relics crowdfunding campaigns. In each case it was thrown in for free for pledging for the starter and I received free minis as stretch goals.
And since I never looked into those I can stand by my statement ;) that I (as in me) had not ever heard of it :D

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redben
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:46 PM Edited on 2013-06-06 17:52:21.0
I'm aware of that but I also feel that not allowing existing and equivalent WoAe options in the pledges is a potential restriction on the amount that could be raised to fund WoO. The Reaper KS was meant to fund their bones range of minis but that didn't stop them raiding their entire back catalogue for add-ons and freebies to drive up the total. Likewise Kingdom Death did the same for their Monster KS.

EDIT: The Relics crowdfunder started out only offering minis for one faction, when the other three were added as options following feedback the total raised jumped quite a bit. That isn't to say that's what would happen here. It might well be the case that all potential pledgers only want Olympus and not Aegyptus.

hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:51 PM
redben said:
I'm aware of that but I also feel that not allowing existing and equivalent WoAe options in the pledges is a potential restriction on the amount that could be raised to fund WoO. The Reaper KS was meant to fund their bones range of minis but that didn't stop them raiding their entire back catalogue for add-ons and freebies to drive up the total. Likewise Kingdom Death did the same for their Monster KS.
I accept that as a valid point. Reaper can throw more manpower at sorting out pledges than just chris and deb though.

Personally I would like to get my hands on the new Khemru warband. But I' already committed to two armies pledges for Olympus :) and a few addons.....

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redben
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 5:54 PM
True and like I say, it might make no difference anyway as it might not attract any other pledgers. It wouldn't seem like a big job to say that the available options include the equivalents from WoAe, though I'm happy to admit I don't know what goes on behind the scenes at CG and how much work that would actually involve.

Oceanborn
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 6:10 PM
the other big difference is that Reaper was converting their back catalogue to Bones, so it isn't as if they were allowing purchases of other models from their range, the additional funds were being used to convert the additional figures to bones. I personally think focusing on Olympus, and only adding Aegyptus figures in if they are otherwise unavailable is preferable

The other thing is that if someone is interested in wargods as a result of the kickstarter, but wants to play a WoA faction or Wendigo, they may as well buy retail, which means they get the figures sooner rather than later.

hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 7:03 PM
Oceanborn said:
The other thing is that if someone is interested in wargods as a result of the kickstarter, but wants to play a WoA faction or Wendigo, they may as well buy retail, which means they get the figures sooner rather than later.
Agreed... but sometimes easier said than done in the land of OZ

(no assumptions made for redben of course - only for my own situation)

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Oceanborn
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 7:08 PM
That is true, ordering online is really the only way to pick it up in Oz unless you happen to live near Zepnix (and maybe Warpuppy).

Either way, you'd still get the figures before the kickstarter ones will ship

hazpak
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Posted: Thursday, Jun 06, 2013 at 8:18 PM Edited on 2013-06-06 20:19:14.0
oh sure make sense why don't you :P

ps woohoo Titan Hunter unlocked

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redben
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 2:19 AM Edited on 2013-06-07 02:23:58.0
Picking up on a few things:

Add Deadzone to the list of KSers which offered a starter with all applicable stretch goals and a PDF of the rules as a pledge level.

Bones is a range of Undead-themed minis that Reaper wanted to raise funds to make. The extensive raiding of their back catalogue for completely unrelated minis was able to siginificantly drive pledges. If WoAe and WoO are completely separate and incompatible games then I can understand the reluctance to offer one in a KS of the other. I certainly wouldn't expect to see Mantic offer Kings of War pledges in their Warpath KS. If they are compatible, and from the outside looking in they seem to be, then I can't see any issue with offering them both together. Check the latest post on the warseer thread for a user who is interested in pledging but is more interested in WoAe.

On the speed of shipping issue. When backing the Relics and Brushfire KSers I was immediately sent my PDF rulebook on making my pledge and as the starters I ordered were available they were immediately sent following the end of the campaign (barring a slight delay in the case of Brushfire whilst come custom dice that were added free as a stretch were produced). There's nothing stopping CG sending out WoAE only pledges soon after the KS ends and a PDF rulebook immediately.

I could order WoAe from the online store and theoretically have them shipped quicker but I cannot get a free PDF of the WoAe rulebook. Granted, that's because there is no PDF of the rulebook available though given PDF's are being offered for WoO it doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem to make one for WoAe. This means I'd have to pay more for both my order and for shipping. Whilst I'm by no means a professional KS consultant I am a very keen observer of crowdfunding campaigns and have kept up to date with research into crowdfunding which is going on at a local university. People who pledge for KSers can broadly be categorised into three groups. The first, and by the far the smallest, are the high-end, money-can't-usually-buy pledgers. These are the ones who will drop several thousand dollars to design a mini or be a VIP guest of the company for a day. The next group are the investors. Strictly speaking the name should belong to the third group for reasons I'll explain when I get to them but in the context of crowdfunding it works well here. Investors are people who pledge simply because they want to see the product get to market and in return they expect no more than their money's worth. If your product would cost $100 at retail then an investor would be happy to pledge $100 and receive a copy of the product in return. The final, and by far the largest, group are the bargain hunters. Bargain hunters expect a return on their money so in this respect they are the true investors. If you went down a traditional investment route with a financial institution they would not expect just to get their money back, they would expect to get their money back and more. Likewise the bargain hunter wants more for their money and will only pledge if they get it. Some bargain hunters have an interest in your product and don't need a lot more to tip them into pledging. Others are ruthless bargain hunters who will only pledge when they feel like they are making a significant saving. If you want to raise a significant sum in a minis-based KS then this can only be done by courting the bargain hunters who consistently prove themselves surprisingly willing to pledge large amounts of money, more so than investors, if they feel like they are getting good value for it.

Right now, the WoO KS is overwhelmingly appealing to investors. Pledge levels are at rrp and there is little prospect of them becoming significantly good value in the near future so the bargain hunters have limited interest. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as courting bargain hunters brings it's own issues and even if the final total raised is significantly higher it can come at the expense of making any money on the KS. If a campaign wants only to raise a modest amount of money to acheive some modest goals then it's possible to do so by appealing to investors and CG have done that so far with this KS. The above has been quite long-winded but it's leading to a point. I've had my eye on WoAE for several years but I've never taken the plunge. In part it's because I'm in the UK and even with Black Pyramid it's both expensive and a faff to get into the game. In part it's because I know no-one else who plays and buying in to the extent I can put together two forces is even more expensive. All of which means that in KS terms I'm not an investor of WoO because if I was I already would have bought into WoAE. That places me into the bargain hunter category as I need the KS to offer me more than just paying at retail to give me the push. When the KS launched that was not the case but it quickly became so with the $30 reduction in shipping and the free PDF of the rulebook. These are minor things which aren't costing CG much but make a huge difference to me and have pushed me close to pledging. That I can now pledge at $20 for one demi-god and add a starter for $75 is another huge step towards me pledging. The KS is moving towards a point where it enables people interested in playing the game but who need a push to do so now have that incentive. I personally believe a c.$100 pledge level of a starter, PDF of the rules, demi-god or harbinger, and access to some stretch goals (even ones which just add existing product rather than give new product like the Titan Hunter and Oracle) would be the sweet spot for this KS that would push people into trying the game. Whilst the short-term goal of a KS is to raise funds, the long-term achievement, which is more important imo, has to be aimed at growing the player base. This is the invesment a company really makes with a KS>

Wolf
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 2:35 AM
Regarding Aegyptus PDF, Chris posted this on the KS comments

"With all the interest in the PDF, we're looking into it - we just need to pull the all the old files and compile everything, but I don't want to promise anything until we are sure we can do it. Give us a few days, and we'll see."

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Apollyon
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 3:31 AM Edited on 2013-06-07 03:32:12.0
Glad the Kickstarter has reached $45,000, and am confident that it can go much, much higher.

I feel that the Mounted Amazons can wait until the core of each faction is funded.

How soon til we see the concept art and greens for the Corinthians?

Will there be a new stretch goal at $50,000? Maybe a Greek Sorcerer or a Warshrine for one of the factions?

I am interested in the idea of a PDF of Wargods of Aegyptus, would be nice to have a back-up if anything happens to my printed copy.

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"Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another." Plato "No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle "He lives not long who battles with the immortals, nor do his children prattle about his knees when he has come back from battle and the dread fray." - Homer , The Iliad

Swiss Toni
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 3:33 AM
I'm real excited by this Kickstarter (hence my nagging of Chris and Debs for extra options) and I've been following this thread with interest. Until the most recent posts I was in the "Keep it to Olympus" camp. But Redben's last point really made me switch.

"Whilst the short-term goal of a KS is to raise funds, the long-term achievement, which is more important imo, has to be aimed at growing the player base. This is the investment a company really makes with a KS"

Having attended conventions in the US and UK for a number of years playing WoA and running demos, it always breaks my heart to see the lack of players. Sure there's interest, usually admiring the figures. People know about WoA, and some are a little surprised that we are still around and that Croc is still in business.

It strikes me that Croc is now getting more publicity in the gaming community than it's had for years, and is very much still in business. And as Redben points out this is a golden opportunity to reboot the whole Wargods franchise. Something as simple for WoA in the Kickstarter could be offering the WoA starter sets at store price plus adding free the WoA pdf could do the trick and would come in at the under $100 mark. And it would not upset the WoO nature of the KS.

Just my two Swiss cents worth.

redben
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 4:34 AM Edited on 2013-06-07 05:21:46.0
Running a gaming KS is very much like making love to a beautiful woman......

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

I'm very much in agreement with that WoAe pledge level you propose and I'd even go a step further. I obviously don't know the economics of running CG and what is or isn't easy for them to do so this is said bearing that in mind. It's also said bearing in mind the fact that at this point the WoAe PDF rulebook can't be guaranteed.

I would make a pledge level of starter set + the relevant harbinger/demi-god plus a PDF of the relevant rulebook and set it at the RRP of the starter and the harbinger plus shipping. I'd make available all the current starters and any that are unlocked in this KS. If that means some come in at different prices then I'd set the pledge level at the lowest and if necessary request an additional payment for the more expensive starters or make two pledge levels and split the starters between them. I'd then hold out the promise of stretch goals that would make these better value. These stretch goals wouldn't be for new sculpts to be funded by making the stretch goal but either for existing product or for sculpts already funded by the KS (depending on the faction you've chosen). There'd still be a cost involved in adding them for free but it wouldn't be as much and the money raised in hitting the stretch goal should be set to more than cover it.

So for example, I want to start playing and I'm interested in the Typhon faction for WoAe. I pledge at $85 which is the cost of Typhon starter and the Harbinger of Set and I receive those plus the PDF of the rulebook. I know that once $XXX is reached in the campaign it will unlock a stretch goal that will add a mini for free. In the case of the Typhon faction I'll get (for argument's sake) the Typhon Assassin. I have no say in which mini I get but I'm just happy to get one for free as it makes the deal even better value and gives me more to get playing with. A further stretch goal at $YYY could add Typhon Hero w/Serpent. A stretch goal at $ZZZ could even unlock the option to buy a Typhon Spearmen Unit for $26 instead of $36.

All of those free/reduced price minis would only happen if stretch goals were met that not only covered the cost of adding them but a bit more as well (as pledgers we don't need to know that). If the total isn't met then CG don't have to provide the minis and nothing is lost. If they are met then I get more minis and both feel like I'm getting a great deal and have more to start playing with, CG raises more money and most importantly of all, it entices more pledgers. Many of these will become players and will continue to generate sales after the KS, they'll take the game to their friends and gaming clubs, and they'll talk about it online. It's a win/win for everyone.

EDIT: I'd also make the new sculpts are unlocked and added for free at higher pledge levels, such as the Titan Hunter and the Oracle, available as purchaseable add-ons, say for $15 each. This means anyone pledging below Skirmish can buy them and drive up the total raised. Anyone at Skirmish or higher is still getting them for free.

Oceanborn
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 6:46 AM
redben said:
Bones is a range of Undead-themed minis that Reaper wanted to raise funds to make. The extensive raiding of their back catalogue for completely unrelated minis was able to siginificantly drive pledges.
As much as the rest of your post made sense, I do have to call you out on this.

Bones is a range of miniatures made from a specific type of plastic, they are NOT intended as an undead themed range, as can be seen when you look at the figures that are currently available as bones, and the original goal for the project. The original goal was '30 new bones', of which a grand total of one is an Undead figure. They are intended to be a cheap figure for purchase.

Regarding a rulebook PDF / warband starter pledge level, I would be happy to see this for WoAE and WoO, however it would only need to be the PDF rulebook and warband starter set, all starters do include a Harbinger/Demigod figure (it is only that the Olympus ones are named as kings etc.), so this figure isn't necessary. I would say that you would need to include a second unit, however, to make a playable force. I would guess this would then be about a $110-$120 pledge level (and Croc would have to work out how to do the Anubi, as well as how to cater for the fact that some of the warband starters are more expensive than others).

What I don't want to see is for everything in the store to be able to be purchased as add-ons - not only do I think that this would cause too many headaches for the Croc, but it may also result in the project being in breach of the Kickstarter terms of use.

hazpak
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 7:20 AM
How about a seperate WoAe Kickstarter in the future to launch the Anubi and To-tanem starter sets? hint hint

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Anstpuppet
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 7:48 AM
hazpak said:
How about a seperate WoAe Kickstarter in the future to launch the Anubi and To-tanem starter sets? hint hint
That would be a great idea. There are certainly other things needed in Aegyptus as well, like chariots, a second Sebeki unit, female units for all the factions aside from Basti, etc.. I would love to see an Aegyptus KS in the future. But for now I am glad that we are seeing Olympus get the love it is getting.

As to the notion of electronic copies of the rulebooks being available for regular purchase I do agree with that. I gave away my physical Wendigo book to a friend as I got the electronic copy for preordering. I have a copy of Wendigo PDF on both of my laptops so it is always nearby. Once I have a bigger group to play with I will likely buy another physical copy as that is easier for me when gaming at store but for at the house I am fine with an electronic copy. I think Croc could certainly make some money and make customers happy off by offering electronic copies so I am all for it. But changing up too many things right now might also hurt the KS campaign. Right now I think that Fitz needs to concentrate on getting as many greens as possible on the KS page to boost sales and push this forward. This has been a long time coming and for right now Olympus is in the driver's seat. That may switch back to Aegyptus during the lull between KS ending and the KS stuff being shipped, which is cool too. All of these games need growth and attention to make the customers happy.

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
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Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 9:38 AM Edited on 2013-06-07 09:47:48.0
Hey Guys,

Lots of lively debate here - thanks for everyone's excitement and keeping it all friendly and constructive!

I'll throw in a bit to address some of the questions...

Why no Aegyptians/Wendigo in the program? Kickstarter is very specific about it's requirements - it is for funding new creative projects, and the current Aegyptian & Wendigo ranges are not new. If we made them a big part of the project, our project may not have gotten approved. So, we were careful to make the arc of the project focused on the book and new models for Olympus. There will be a few Aegyptian bits showing up as Add-Ons... but these are just going to be fun special models, not factions.

If someone really wants Aegyptian forces, we could try to work something out by email, but the problem is that the compositions of the Aegyptian/Wendigo units does not match Olympus, and the price point is not the same. So we can't easily swap a Kickstarter 'Warband Deal' for Sebeki, as they don't have the same price and composition. And to explain all of this, and add all the options to cover the differences would make the KS unmanageable (and very hard for new players to understand.)

I really, really would love to do a Aegyptus Kickstarter at some point to fund some of the stuff that was missed (chariots for everyone, etc), but that would have to be after this one is fulfilled. It could be in conjunction with a compilation book with all the added units (like Warhawks, Necropolis Guard, etc) and adding new special units for each faction - I have ideas for all of them. But - that's all later, once this project turns out successfully. I hope you guys understand where we're coming from on this.

Sorry if we've been a bit slow responding to all this - it's just Debs and I behind the curtain working all the controls, and with all of the comments & email on different forums, and sculpting and painting and photography and updates - whew! it is keeping us busy!

Thanks for all the support guys! Lots of cool stuff is to come, if we can keep this going... keep spreading the word!

--Fitz

drunkendwarf
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/05/2005
Member: 99
Total Posts: 69
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 12:59 PM
Osiris said:
I really, really would love to do a Aegyptus Kickstarter at some point to fund some of the stuff that was missed (chariots for everyone, etc), but that would have to be after this one is fulfilled. It could be in conjunction with a compilation book with all the added units (like Warhawks, Necropolis Guard, etc) and adding new special units for each faction - I have ideas for all of them. But - that's all later, once this project turns out successfully. I hope you guys understand where we're coming from on this.

I would love that! A book with extra units and I hope some new specialists ;-)

DJ

Akori
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 03/21/2007
Member: 577
Total Posts: 715
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 2:24 PM
Like Chris said, patience. This KS is a very large step and Aegyptus is pretty flushed out. Everything is cyclical. I'd like to see Croc flush out more of Olympus in the next year or two, then move on to some cooler temps in the Antediluvian world. Hyperborea or Viking style.
Where we play, next to Greeks, the Viking are the most requested for Wargods by non-players interested in jumping in.

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Slayer of the Minotaur Lord of Knossos (S.D. '10), Savior of Calydon (S.D. '11)

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 3:10 PM
On the Artemis figure, it's a lot nicer than the old one. Really top notch sculpt and WANT one!

The only issue I have is a game mechanics one : without armour or a substitute (such as runes for the ice witch) she's going to be dead in provocation, and if you can't be competitive in provocation, you're never going to increase in Ka.

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 3:51 PM
Ok, Corinthian book excerpt and concept art are now up on the Kickstarter Page. Enjoy! Spoilers abound!

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 3:54 PM
Nebseni Hammerhand said:
On the Artemis figure, it's a lot nicer than the old one. Really top notch sculpt and WANT one!

The only issue I have is a game mechanics one : without armour or a substitute (such as runes for the ice witch) she's going to be dead in provocation, and if you can't be competitive in provocation, you're never going to increase in Ka.

Ha, good point! But I'm not going to let a little thing like rules stand in the way of making a cool figure! I guess I'm gonna have to get the 'rules guy' to give her a supernatural dodge ability!

Oceanborn
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/03/2005
Member: 67
Total Posts: 622
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 4:36 PM Edited on 2013-06-07 16:39:26.0
but with a whole range of warrior women coming out, surely it will be possible to convert an armoured Artemis out of something

That said, I wouldn't have a problem with someone fielding that figure and having the armour explained as a 'dodge' ability

Zebb
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 06/04/2013
Member: 1928
Total Posts: 19
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 5:13 PM Edited on 2013-06-07 17:40:13.0
With the Spartan Army deal not gone I was wondering if it is possible to state a few extra things about it. Models are a bit old, the oldest in the game IIRC. Will they be newly painted, will they include all models already released, does it include the Limited Edition Tychedes II, will the the new Gods of Sparta be included, etc?

Is there anything extra that will make that $2000 jump more attractive? I would assume you would want it to be sold off, and what would make it more attractive except for old models and a new (?) paint job?

I am not considering getting it, I might get something else in that price range though. But what would make it more interesting for someone else?

I just want this campaign to succeed as much as possible, and spitting out ideas, and questions to try to help - not to mess things up. But when there is "only" 1 out of 4 Army deals left, when it was previously gone it will have to make you think a little bit.

On a second note, I love the new Artemis (the goddess I have always felt closer to as a hunter myself), absolutely stunning model! I can not wait to hold it in my hand, I do fear that my painting skills is not up to the standards I would like though....!

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 6:19 PM Edited on 2013-06-07 18:20:19.0
Zebb said:
With the Spartan Army deal not gone I was wondering if it is possible to state a few extra things about it. Models are a bit old, the oldest in the game IIRC. Will they be newly painted, will they include all models already released, does it include the Limited Edition Tychedes II, will the the new Gods of Sparta be included, etc?

Is there anything extra that will make that $2000 jump more attractive? I would assume you would want it to be sold off, and what would make it more attractive except for old models and a new (?) paint job?

I am not considering getting it, I might get something else in that price range though. But what would make it more interesting for someone else?

I just want this campaign to succeed as much as possible, and spitting out ideas, and questions to try to help - not to mess things up. But when there is "only" 1 out of 4 Army deals left, when it was previously gone it will have to make you think a little bit.

On a second note, I love the new Artemis (the goddess I have always felt closer to as a hunter myself), absolutely stunning model! I can not wait to hold it in my hand, I do fear that my painting skills is not up to the standards I would like though....!

Thanks for the questions Zeb!

The King of Sparta deal will have all newly-painted models, they won't be the ones on the Croc store. It does include Tychedes, he's in the Warband starter set which is included.

The King deals have actually been really popular, all the other sold in a matter of hours -- I'm pretty sure the King of Sparta reward will find the right owner before the project is done (I mean, it's the Spartans! For Spartaaa!)

Glad you like the new Artemis, don't sweat the painting, I do all my sculptures with nice raised details to help with the painting.

I gotta go post an update, back in a couple hours with something cool!

Oceanborn
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/03/2005
Member: 67
Total Posts: 622
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 7:13 PM
BTW, I have to say a big THANKS to Croc Games for being clear about when each unlocked faction will be available. You may want to add something to the FAQ concerning when the miniatures will be on retail sale so that people can understand that if they elect not to split shipments then the miniatures will be on sale before they receive theirs.

Hecate
Croc Administration
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 01/26/2007
Member: 559
Total Posts: 355
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 8:21 PM
Oceanborn said:
BTW, I have to say a big THANKS to Croc Games for being clear about when each unlocked faction will be available. You may want to add something to the FAQ concerning when the miniatures will be on retail sale so that people can understand that if they elect not to split shipments then the miniatures will be on sale before they receive theirs.
You are very welcome! We're doing our best to make the program crystal-clear.

Let me clarify the shipping dates... we have a shipping date of September for Trojans, October for Amazons, July 2014 for the book and later miniatures - those are ship dates for our backers. Only after the backer's stuff is all fulfilled, will we be launching the retail range. So folks who don't back the project will have to wait until after July 2014 to get any of the stuff in the program - we'll start releasing the stuff on a monthly basis after the book is out. You guys will all have painted armies by then!

Up until July next year, we're going to be busy as bees making all these miniatures, painting the armies, and putting the last touches on the books!

So don't worry, if you back the kickstarter, you will get your miniatures and books before everyone else does.

We will try and get this added to the FAQ, thanks for bringing this up Oceanborn!

Oceanborn
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/03/2005
Member: 67
Total Posts: 622
Posted: Friday, Jun 07, 2013 at 9:21 PM
Thanks for the clarification

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 12:18 AM
Whew! After that last upload to the Kickstarter site, I could use a drink!

Zebb
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 06/04/2013
Member: 1928
Total Posts: 19
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 1:22 AM Edited on 2013-06-08 01:23:25.0
With all the talk about Aphrodite in the Corinthians texts....? (is there a new model somewhere, that we don't know about yet???)

Pakhet
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/30/2005
Member: 162
Total Posts: 129
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 1:27 AM
Thanks for Dionysus :-)

any chance you modeled him off Brian Blessed?

hazpak
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 01/16/2006
Member: 194
Total Posts: 364
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 3:26 AM
Shhhh copyright ;)

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There is no spoon - just sporks

Nebseni Hammerhand
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/17/2006
Member: 231
Total Posts: 1378
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 4:59 AM
I will have to run a warband of Dionysus... the combo of an ENORMOUS HAM and Maenads?

How can you possibly go wrong!

Alcibia
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 35
Total Posts: 185
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 8:03 AM
Yikes! if I read Hecate's post correctly, everything in the Kickstarter will disappear after the launch until next July!?! If that is true, I need to see the rest of the miniatures, I am going to have to up my pledge (again) so I do not miss something I simply cannot wait for. How long before we see the rest of the amazons (archers and peltasts) what about the Mycenaean peltasts? Will they be new and will we see them soon? I think I need to add some additional units to my pledge but since I am already so deep into this - I really need to assess critically before I can continue to up my pledge.

Barry

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 8:35 AM Edited on 2013-06-08 08:43:33.0
Alcibia said:
Yikes! if I read Hecate's post correctly, everything in the Kickstarter will disappear after the launch until next July!?! If that is true, I need to see the rest of the miniatures, I am going to have to up my pledge (again) so I do not miss something I simply cannot wait for. How long before we see the rest of the amazons (archers and peltasts) what about the Mycenaean peltasts? Will they be new and will we see them soon? I think I need to add some additional units to my pledge but since I am already so deep into this - I really need to assess critically before I can continue to up my pledge.

Barry

I wouldn't say 'disappear', but after the program is over we'll have to put all this stuff in production. We have about a year's worth of stuff that's a part of the program, and it will all have to be molded, masters cleaned, cast, and packed - all along with working on the book. So once the program wraps we'll be concentrating on delivering everything we promised.

We're not likely to be showing off the Mycenaean Peltasts until after the program, as they are conversions of the Trojan Peltasts, and those have only just come back from our moldmaker. We might show off some more concepts of Amazons in a few days...

Alcibia
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 35
Total Posts: 185
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 8:37 AM
Thanks Chris, so it is possible that say the Trojans and amazons may hit the store earlier than next July. yes?

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Alcibia said:
Thanks Chris, so it is possible that say the Trojans and amazons may hit the store earlier than next July. yes?
Anything is possible, but it would probably be a better idea to release them to retail once the book is available. Right now I'd assume that they won't make it to the Croc store/retail until the book gets here, just to be safe.

CBP3
High Tethru Investigator
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/02/2005
Member: 55
Total Posts: 3018
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 11:48 AM
Had to up my pledge from 'By the Gods' to 'Olympian' just because....

---------------
http://minismithsforge.blogspot.com/ http://shefdumabuki.blogspot.com/

Tjaroy
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 23
Total Posts: 423
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 12:56 PM
Alcibia said:
Tony, OK, that is cool, but why? What do yuo think we will see from Corinth that is not available in the Spartan or Mycenaean mix? is it the style that appeals? Just curious, thanks.
Well I wanted the Corinth because of the Nobles riding Winged horses.

Flying Pegaus knights will be very cool to play with.

Tony

---------------
Tjaroy the Fist of Ptah Champion of Sobek(SF05), Champion of Amun(TX05), Champion of Bast (TX05), Champion of Bast(SF06) Sasobek the Devouer of the Weak, Defender of Khepri (GenCon07), Champion of Ra(GenCon07)

Alcibia
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 35
Total Posts: 185
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 2:19 PM
Tony, agreed, I was not aware of the flying horses and the cool appearance of the hoplite. they look pretty great.

redben
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 06/06/2013
Member: 1930
Total Posts: 54
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 3:08 PM
Tjaroy said:
Alcibia said:
Tony, OK, that is cool, but why? What do yuo think we will see from Corinth that is not available in the Spartan or Mycenaean mix? is it the style that appeals? Just curious, thanks.
Well I wanted the Corinth because of the Nobles riding Winged horses.

Flying Pegaus knights will be very cool to play with.

Tony

There's only one Pegasos, anything else is just a winged horse. Bit of a pet hate of mine lol :p

Pakhet
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/30/2005
Member: 162
Total Posts: 129
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 11:01 PM
Question about further orders coming up. Nebeseni and ordered separately (but really together) me for demigod pack, and Nebseni for the Army pack x2. This means we get 3 rules books (when really we just want one book each. We were going to get Trojans and Amazons.

Now my understanding is only one one reward level per backer? so this mean one person cannot say a "Council of the Gods" pack" and an "Army" pack. It would also mean that if someone picks the Army pack, they cannot get another Army pack. Have I understood correctly?

So my question is more, *when* we get to Corinthians, if we want another army, will there also be an add on for another army? We would consider getting the three, and if the Athenians come out, then getting the four. How would this work of we can only get the one reward level? Also, we really don't need any more rulebooks, so could we get an army pack without another book?

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Saturday, Jun 08, 2013 at 11:22 PM
Pakhet said:
Question about further orders coming up. Nebeseni and ordered separately (but really together) me for demigod pack, and Nebseni for the Army pack x2. This means we get 3 rules books (when really we just want one book each. We were going to get Trojans and Amazons.

Now my understanding is only one one reward level per backer? so this mean one person cannot say a "Council of the Gods" pack" and an "Army" pack. It would also mean that if someone picks the Army pack, they cannot get another Army pack. Have I understood correctly?

So my question is more, *when* we get to Corinthians, if we want another army, will there also be an add on for another army? We would consider getting the three, and if the Athenians come out, then getting the four. How would this work of we can only get the one reward level? Also, we really don't need any more rulebooks, so could we get an army pack without another book?

If you want to get an extra army or faction added to your existing reward level, you just need to add the cost of them to your total pledge level, and we'll add it to your reward. Right now the add-ons are just by unit, so if you wanted a whole army you'd just have to specify each unit specifically when you did your survey at the end.

You are right, Kickstarter is only set up for 1 reward per backer. We can make more rewards with extra armies, and will if there is a demand for them, the worry is just making the program hard to navigate because of too many options. If you guys want us to make an Army x3 deal (or whatever assortment you were after) just let us know, and we can figure out the easiest way to work it out. It's no problem!

We were already considering an 'Alliance' reward, which would be 1 book and 2 armies, if there is a demand we can add it.

Pakhet
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/30/2005
Member: 162
Total Posts: 129
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 1:05 AM
please add it!

We would likely change our backer to that as it would cut out the extra book. There might be many others, who would like two armies as well (if not three or four), I think it would be a good option.

hazpak
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 01/16/2006
Member: 194
Total Posts: 364
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 1:41 AM Edited on 2013-06-09 01:42:01.0
I would demand that level :) yes yes I would

I could replace the book with an archer unit :)

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There is no spoon - just sporks

CBP3
High Tethru Investigator
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/02/2005
Member: 55
Total Posts: 3018
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 1:55 AM Edited on 2013-06-09 01:57:33.0
I just realized I have question about the Army level pledge and units outside of the warband starter. Not sure it's been asked yet: do the additional units have to be the same city as the warband or can it be mix and match?

For example if I really want the Amazon Warband starter and then Trojans for one of the additional phalanxes (or some other variation). Is that sort of mix possible?

---------------
http://minismithsforge.blogspot.com/ http://shefdumabuki.blogspot.com/

hazpak
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 01/16/2006
Member: 194
Total Posts: 364
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 5:49 AM
In a word yes! It's mentioned somewhere on the kickstarter

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There is no spoon - just sporks

Alcibia
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 35
Total Posts: 185
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 9:35 AM
New to Kickstarter, so a question. I have upped my original pledge once and plan to add a few more units shortly, now, when all is said and done, will I get to basically determine where the money goes? For example, I pledged at army level, and then added a warband so the total rose by that amount but my pledge now says I am at warband level, the dollar amount is correct but I am just curious about the distribution of funds when the time comes.

Hecate
Croc Administration
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 01/26/2007
Member: 559
Total Posts: 355
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:31 AM
Alcibia said:
New to Kickstarter, so a question. I have upped my original pledge once and plan to add a few more units shortly, now, when all is said and done, will I get to basically determine where the money goes? For example, I pledged at army level, and then added a warband so the total rose by that amount but my pledge now says I am at warband level, the dollar amount is correct but I am just curious about the distribution of funds when the time comes.
The way Kickstarter is set up, it only allows a backer to pick one reward. When you selected the Warband level, you actually changed your reward from Army to Warband level (a lower reward).

What you want to do is just switch your reward back to Army (since that was the biggest one that covers what you want) and make sure that the total dollar value of your pledge level is enough to cover any Add-Ons you picked out.

For example, your army is $280, and say you wanted to add another Starter Set ($75) and Peltast Unit ($36). You choose the Army reward, and in the dollar amount you increase the total $$ by the total for all the Add-Ons you want - in this case $111 - so the total pledged would be $391 ($280+$75+$36=$391). You would enter $391 in the 'Manage Your Pledge' section, and then check out through Amazon.

Remember, Kickstarter does not charge your account until the end of the program, so any change you make is just telling Kickstarter that you have revised the amount to charge at the end.

Once the program is over, we send out a survey that you fill out, and that's when you can tell us what specific Add-Ons you chose, as well as other specifics like shields for you units, what name in the book, etc.

Please let me know if any of this doesn't make sense...

BlazeXI
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 02/26/2008
Member: 816
Total Posts: 118
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:41 AM
@Alcibia: you can always change the the pledge say from skirmisher to Army (just click on the manage your pledge and click the bullet at pledge level that interests you) calculate the sum of pledge, shipping ad add ons and insert the total in the pledge value filed. When I was doing Reaper kickstarter I did change the pledge total several times....

Speaking of add ons, maybe a complete set of Demigods might be a good option. I am tron between the two usd400 pledges (two warbands or an army with demigods) and this add on wold make it an easy choice for me. Well that and the possibility to trade in one of the Olympus rulebooks for the new Aegyptus one.

---------------
BlazeXI

Alcibia
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 35
Total Posts: 185
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 10:55 AM
thanks everyone for the info. appreciate your time.

Dreadaxe
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 12/01/2005
Member: 38
Total Posts: 1036
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 4:29 PM
Maybe it's possible to delete the Painter x2 and x3. Painter with add-on do the same thing.

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Dreadaxe
WarGods_Fr : Y!G | Blog | Photo Gallery
Map player locator T³

Osiris
Chief Croc, Lord Octoblob
Group: Administrator
Member Since: 11/16/2005
Member: 2
Total Posts: 1666
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 5:33 PM
Map updated to Troy!

tchuck
Group: Site Member
Member Since: 06/09/2013
Member: 1933
Total Posts: 1
Posted: Sunday, Jun 09, 2013 at 7:11 PM
I have an idea that could be done to include people, interested in WoAe and WoH, in the kickstarter. Until the end of the kickstarter campaign, X% of all sale on the croc online store would contribute to reaching stretch goal. You could also reward those that buy from the store with a pdf of the rulebook (whichever you feel appropriate

keep up the nice sculpt and concept art.

Are the automatons a unit only available to demigod of Hephaestus? Like satyrs can only be taken by demigods Artemis and Dionysus.

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